International Women’s Day: Chatting with Kate Palmer

International Women’s Day takes place today (8th March): a Global Day of Awareness that celebrates the social, economic, cultural, and political achievements of women, whilst also acknowledging the need for further progression.

It seems strange that less than a century ago, women weren’t able to vote. And even just a few decades ago, it would have been practically unheard of to have women in senior leadership positions within organisations.

Whilst attitudes towards women have thankfully progressed since then, there are still a myriad of challenges that exist.

Take the gender pay gap for example which indicates that, even now, women are paid 15.4% less per hour than their male counterparts. And whilst the percentage of women in FTSE 100 boardroom roles is currently at its highest (39%), just eight CEOs from the UK’s top 100 listed companies are female.

Despite paternity leave being openly available for most new fathers in employment, just ¼ of eligible dads take it.

This means that the onus still falls very much on women to take extended time off work, although there could be other factors at play in this decision, such as men’s pay typically being higher than women’s.

We sat down with Kate Palmer, HR Advice & Consultancy Director at Peninsula to talk through this and give her advice on International Women’s Day.

What does International Women’s Day mean to you?

To me, it’s a celebration of all the amazing women out there who work their backsides off in all sorts of different ways to succeed!

There are sometimes inferences that there is now gender equality in society.

If this was the case though, gender pay gaps would not exist and there would be more women in senior roles or in work at all.

This is a day to celebrate brilliant women and raise awareness that there is still work that needs to be done and equality still needs to be strived for

What is a specific feminine trait which you think has a significant positive impact in managerial roles?

Shades and depth!

I have been on many an ‘insight’ type exercise and many men celebrate being logical or authoritarian – a domineering way of thinking that is quite forceful and that is often seen as a positive. I have always been bemused by that as I think it’s nonsense.

To have one way of thinking is a weakness. You have to have ‘different colours’ and different ways of thinking.

To be agile and empathise and understand; to be logical and extract data and understand MI; to be authoritative and tell someone the way to do it, moving from one stance to another.

Layers and different approaches are key to success and I am playing different versions of myself in every conversation I have.

My husband said to me on a night out in Manchester a few weeks ago: “I am a simple man, you are a complicated woman.

Will you just tell me in simple terms what you want me to do?” I had to say, it made me chuckle!

What mindset do you think can prevent women from achieving career goals? What mindset can help women break the glass ceiling?

Overthinking without a doubt! Perfectionism and wanting to prove you are brilliant at everything can be a real blocker.

I have had to really teach myself that life is not perfect, from being a mother, to a friend, to a leader, to the way I look, to relationships and I have only got better at that in my thirties.

Now I am in my forties, I feel a real contentment I have never felt before because I don’t care as much about what people think and I know perfection does not exist.

In terms of breaking the glass ceiling, I think this mindset helps massively.

I don’t think a lot of men have this desire for perfectionism as much as women. Don’t sweat the small stuff as much, don’t think about a certain issue as much, stop giving yourself too hard a time – that can be really empowering.

What is the most significant challenge for women right now?

I am a working mother with two young daughters, and I still think being a parent and a senior leader is really hard. It is very difficult to balance both.

I’m very lucky in that I have a husband who splits home duties right down the middle and whilst, from what I see, that is more common than it used to be, sadly I still don’t think it is the norm.

That makes it hard for women to succeed. Until there is complete equality in society, I question if there can be complete equality in the workplace as women often cannot give full commitment to the workplace.

Somewhere in the busy-ness of life and the juggling of duties, you also need to find a little time for yourself – for Kate to be Kate – but often that comes way down the list.

Split across so many responsibilities and feeling you have to be 100% perfect in all of them.

I’m not sure who is creating that pressure – oneself, the media, society, work, other school mums – but it seems that for many women, whatever your focus is on, you’re riddled with guilt for not focusing on all the other things that also deserve your attention.

You mentioned that finding the balance between being a parent and a senior leader is challenging; what do you think HR could do to alleviate this?

Flexibility – which I am lucky to have.

If you want to drop your kids off at school on occasion instead of using the school club, be flexible.

If you want to leave early to go to a school Christmas play, allow it: but it can’t be all one way.

Flexibility has to be a two-way street. I will attend out of hours meetings and make personal arrangements; I will travel; I will work at the weekend for something pressing.

I do this because I love Peninsula and my team, and want it to be the best it can be.

I see acknowledgement of flexibility in return, and I know that is a good employment relationship.

Although the issue of the pay gap is well recognised, internal discussions surrounding this subject can be tricky; do you have advice on how women can approach their managers about this?

Honesty and directness. I have been brought up to not talk about money, to think it’s crude and private.

But if anything, that can hold you back a bit. We all want money and it is not dirty to say that. We want the best for our family. So have those open and honest discussions – but don’t expect money for nothing. Nothing is free and you don’t get reward without effort.

If you are going to have a discussion with your manager, approach it with objective evidence of what you have achieved and what value you have added to the business that can be measured and supported with data.

I have had people approach me for pay rises where they have coasted along and just expect it because it happens to be pay review time.

That is not going to get the outcome you want.

You get rewarded for hard work and you have to evidence that, so be factual, measured, evidence-based, and express your loyalty and commitment to the business.

Put in the graft and you get the return!

What do you think is the key agenda for HR in the year to come?

Flexibility, the impact that the rising cost of living will have on employee expectations, business re-sizing, employee engagement to aide recruitment and retention, to name but a few.

But that is what I love about HR… It is a never-ending, complex subject matter, and importantly, at the centre of it is people – and I love people!